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Feedback Channel about Void Linux Management issues


#98

To any voidlinux admin: Can we please have an update? It may have been discussed on irc and twitter and similiar platforms, but I‘ve not yet read about any progress and I would really like to my hands dirty to fix whatever is still problematic.

As I said before: Please keep us updated. If there is anything the Community can do, tell us. I just don‘t like silence. If everything is doing well and no further help is needed at this point, a little heads up wont hurt either. Thanks!


(Enno Boland) #99

There’s no real news atm. We’re currently working on moving the domain to voidlinux.org. @maldridge has set up a mirror redirector that works on geoloc.

Vaelatern is working on dxpb and is searching for help. So if anyone wants to join: There’s #dxpb in Freenode.

I’m currently busy with freelancing, the firefox-60 update is having problems, and writing lots of mails to find a solution to set up donations again. As it involves third parties, I’d like to announce it when they are okay with it.

For the Github org issue: Github has done very little to help us with the issue. In some parts that’s understandable, nonetheless I’m disappointed. If we can’t come to a solution in the next few weeks we have to switch to a different organisation.


(John Peach) #100

Can you not just fork it on github? That’s what happened with ExchangeCalendar (for Lightning/Thunderbird) when the original maintainer disappeared.


#101

Yes but we lose all all issues, pull requests and the references to those in commit messages, all 700+ github forks need to update their remotes and maybe other annoying complications we don’t know of yet.


(John Peach) #102

Yeah - much bigger project than ExchangeCalendar; when it’s put like that…


(Enno Boland) #103

What @Duncaen said. Actually that’s the point where Github’s support isn’t helpful at all: I can understand, that Github won’t move the organisation without the agreement of the actual owner. But I can’t understand why it is not possible to move (or even copy) the repositories with meta informations.


#104

/me shrugs
Would it be possible to scrape or use the API to get the Github issues and other metadata and import it into something such as a selfhosted GitLab server?

(I’m personally not 100% sold on GitLab for my own use because it has many “moving parts” but it was just a suggestion)


#105

There are a lot of issues that could be left behind, though. There are plenty of things that have been solved but haven’t been closed.


(maxice8 alter) #106

we really should get a bot that closes stale issues


(Gus Fun) #107

I couldn’t possibly have enough data to advise whether you are doing the right thing or not but I am thinking there is a risk of having to do this twice and it would be worse than doing it right the first time around.
Let’s say the owner of the domain and the github account had an accident and was in a comma or had amnesia, but returns to good health and regains lost memory and reappears. He gets angry at moving his kid around to different servers, and eventually can’t come to terms with the move. He can fork void at his own and claim his is the original void, the other void is a fake.
Sites like distrowatch and similar ones, who are they to trust as the continuation of original void? Would there be two voids named void?
It is a worst case scenario and most likely if such thing had happened and the owner comes back he would come to terms with his old pals and the measures they took to preserve void. So there might not be a problem after all. Nevertheless, you have to admit that leaving something behind that can possibly be revived and be called void linux with general higher credibility than the new void linux, is an issue that should be in your agenda.


(Enno Boland) #108

This is not a hollywood movie where people have amnesia and become evil entities afterwards. There are ways to solve such issues. There’s enough stuff we need to do. So let’s focus on them instead of making up issues that do not exist.


#109

also, we really should get a bot that would advise commiters not to open a PR for a package that has previously been updated by somebody else. :wink: It would avoid duplicate.


(Enno Boland) #110

The problem with this idea is that the PR must be opened in order to let the bots run. It makes it easier to identify duplicates, but not avoid them.


(Gus Fun) #111

That just means you have more information than I do to dismiss such a scenario, but from where we (users) stand this scenario is perfectly logical. It has nothing to do with hollywood and evil characters.

I can see that you may have reasons not to explain it but dismissing it as a paranoid hypothesis is not sufficient. Voidlinux.eu (where we are actually holding this conversation) is owned still by someone who some say is not around. And this void system will move to voidlinux.org
Unless you know the man is dead or you are holding him hostage in your basement I can’t understand how you can dismiss such a scenario as the one I mentioned, no matter what the reasons of disappearance and reappearance may be.


(Enno Boland) #112

Okay. Why?


#113

People are blowing this situation way out of proportion.
Juan probably either just quit out of boredom, stress, or some other personal issue.

The team has already stated that there is no legal entity around the distro and as such, there is no “fake” and “real” void. It looks like the only problem right now is how convenient they can make the switch for contributors and the community towards a new URL and git repo.

This whole debate about the “philosophy and principles” of the distro just seems a bit silly to me. My opinion is that what makes this distro great is exactly the lack of all of this. At least that is what drove me to this distro (combined with the i686 support). Void feels more hobbyist and community-driven than Arch or any other distro that comes to my mind. Void was just fine before even though the lead was gone for quite a while. This shows that the team knows what they are doing.

On the change to voidlinux.org:
Will you transfer the discourse instance and the wiki over and retain all the accounts and so on?

I want to thank the team for being transparent and seeking solutions with the community on how to go on. You do some really good work and I hope all of this will be fixed soon. :slight_smile:


(Enno Boland) #114

The wiki runs on my server, so that shouldn’t be a problem.

Discourse runs on @gregf’s hardware and will eventually move to one of voids servers. This depends on the go-live of the new buildserver then we got free resources on other boxes again.

Even if there’s a dispute we always can relabel void.


(Gus Fun) #115

Ok, I’ll put my worries to rest for now, and here is a joke to lighten up.

If this had happened to debian I am sure they would have been more that 30 debians right now all claiming they are the original one :wink:


#116

The real issue is getting new authorized committers enrolled. With superman gone, Void needs 10 mortals in his place. That’s the big issue about “owning” the Github project.

Github is a business. View things from a corporate standpoint. Github must see self-interest in doing right.

Each Github account ties to a legal entity, person or corporation, that agreed to Github’s ToS. Remind Github its ToS say it can terminate anyone, anytime, for any reason or none. Propose that someone else assume Github billing responsibility for Void Linux. That’s key, even if there’s no charge (yet).

Ask Github to contact Void’s founder with legal notice that failure to respond in 30/60/90 days constitutes consent to project transfer and/or account termination. That notice lifts liability. As well, Void’s founder gets a last chance. ToS give Github permission to serve legal notice by e-mail, but requires any notice to it in writing. So Github can just try to e-mail the founder. By ToS that e-mail constitutes legal notice.

Simultaneously, tell Github of intent to publicize its actions. Corporations hop for publicity. It’s not in Github’s interest to mishandle the situation. It should be taken as a chance to fill a corporate policy hole. What does Github do with abandoned projects?

For Void I would prefer self-hosted git to any corporate setup, but in any case: if Github flops, just migrate and get it over with. Void has many people volunteering free time and equipment but no good way to adopt them. The key to future health is more committers.

Script for Gitlab Migration
RhodeCode for best security
Plan.io for German hosting
Miscellany discussion


#117

Does GitLab try to bypass GDPR like this?


The future for Void?