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Feedback Channel about Void Linux Management issues


(edwin snelgrove) #46

Sorry to hear about this problem. Forgive my ignorance of this issue, but shouldn’t it be possible for anyone who wants to fork VoidLinux to obtain the sources and do so? If I knew I had complete sources, I (or anyone) could reasonably evaluate the possibility of picking up the distro and moving it forward.

Obviously, the ideal scenario would be for the existing team to re-establish itself and keep it going. If that isn’t going to happen, what are the major hurdles to someone else initiating a fork? (I believe there’s a real need for a non-systemd, closely held, non-gov-tainted distro.)


(Masato the Empty) #47

I’d guess mainly the will to do so and the manpower (plus resources to maintain infrastructure for your own build servers and package repos).

Depending on what you wanted to do with it (one would want to do something to distinguish a full-on fork, right?), Void seems mainly to consist of the xbps package system and the xbps-src build system. Pretty sure both are BSD-licensed so you don’t have any real legal limitations on the use of the code.

Void’ll likely be fine, even if it has to take on an altered identity. A rose by any other name…


(edwin snelgrove) #48

Thanks for the prompt reply. After installing Void several months ago, I got the impression there were some outstanding issues, so I figured I’d wait awhile before trying again. My concern is that the major distros seem to be departing from some of the core principles which have made the Linux universe such a desirable alternative to the hyper-commercialized oligarchs and crony capitalists who are desperately trying to carve out monopolies over various application segments. (Not to mention the US gov., which recognizes no limits whatsoever on its right to surveil anyone anywhere for any reason.)

I was hoping Void (as a small, low-profile & offshore distro), could provide a secure stable alternative.


(edwin snelgrove) #49

I would like to get a makeable copy of the current release sources. Can you direct me to a link/mirror where I can download them?

Thanks in advance.

Ted in Portland, Oregon, USA
t b f h 1 9 5 5 (g m a i l)


(Enno Boland) #50

All sources of void are mirrored at https://sources.voidlinux.eu


(edwin snelgrove) #51

Thanks very much. (Looking forward to good news on your re-organization initiative.)


(edwin snelgrove) #52

There are quite a number of items at that location (hundreds actually). Any chance you could provide me a subset link or list of links which enable me to make the current stable distro? (Presumably including a config/make file?)

Thanks in advance.


#53

There is no stable release, https://github.com/voidlinux/void-packages is the build system and contains configurations and additional patches.
What do you want to do exactly.


(edwin snelgrove) #54

At this point, I just want to confirm that Void Linux is indeed “open-source”. My definition of open-source:

A set of readable source files & a platform provisioning list sufficient to ‘make’ the binary distro.

If I can confirm that, my intention is to attempt to evaluate how much work necessary to create a stable release. Next, devise a framework for compensating contributors to maintaining it (ideally, starting with those of you who have brought it thus far).


#55

Everything is at https://github.com/voidlinux, sources.voidlinux.eu just mirrors the external source archives for packages that the build server has downloaded.


#57

:confounded: of course, at the current speed… it’s ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶e difficult to maintain a distribution.


(R. Joyce) #58

I have registered “voidelinux.com” and “voidelinux.org” and will contribute them to the Void team for free.

“Wiktionary” definition:
“voide”: Obsolete form of “void”.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/voide

All I wish for is:

  1. Some not-for-profit corporation should own the rights. And it should NOT be “tax exempt”, since tax exemption invites all sorts of government influence. A separate “tax-exempt” corporation could always be formed to promote and contribute to “Voide”.

  2. There must exist in the Charter, and in Practice, reasonable assurance that the corporation will be strongly resistant to hostile infiltration or subversion.

At least in the US it is VERY cheap to establish and run a not-for-profit. A GENUINE small corporation specialist lawyer should help form it. then a very low cost bookkeeper should be hired to do the yearly books. It only costs a few $hundred a year, if even that much. It’s really dirt cheap.

As many proven trustworthy and worldly-wise team members as can be mustered should form the board, and they should only be replaced by very carefully vetted new people, whom THEY ALONE choose. This board should be as POWERFUL as possible. Look at what happened to the Debian board. I have contributed to several organizations whose missions were compromised by powerful outside interests, and it is very sad.

Since I happen to be non-wealthy, it would be nice to get back the $20 ~ 30 USD I spent on the domains, but really it is not much.

Thank you so very much for all your work bringing this great distribution to us!


(Jacob Moen) #59

Void is bleeding edge, but without the blood.
It is not stable in the Debian/Ubuntu/Suse sense of stable, but is perfect for people (like me) who want the newest and shiniest software without major headaches :wink:

In my experience, Void performs better and breaks much less often than Arch.
And it doesn’t break our toys as Debian Sid does.

I sincerely hope that our hero Void team manages to sort out the issues, because Void fills a void not filled by other Linux distributions!


(garry) #61

As an elder who has had occasion to face the certainty of leaving everything here – regaining consciousness on the floor and realizing that I had briefly left everything – I have a strong sense that any of us in Juan’s position, losing the ability to continue building a beloved project, would want above all that others value it enough to continue it in the same name that we had chosen for it and continuing in the same direction that we had started. Changing the name would seem to be a small insult, as though the name given it by Juan wasn’t good enough or the thing he has created, and hopefully will be able to return to when he is able, was in need of a makeover and redirection. I don’t think that anyone believes that Void Linux needs any re-direction. Everyone seems to be in harmony on a goal of ensuring that the work continues – with an even bigger and better team! – on the thing that quite a few thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of computer enthusiasts and professionals have come to know as “Void Linux”. The existing name has acquired meaning.

Juan had already stated his intention that this be an openly shared BSD-licensed project and that the existing committers have the right to modify it – he wants it to be community owned: Void Linux was created in 2008 by former NetBSD maintainer Juan Romero Pardines, and continues to be developed entirely by volunteers. That is Juan’s voice speaking in the Void Linux wiki – he put that statement there long before he “left” the project. Void Linux is developed entirely by volunteers.

Some of our issues are discussed in a Wired article.

Thank you committers very much for your openness about this issue. Your way of handling this brings you great respect and I think that Void Linux will be strengthened.


#62

To retain the Void brand adopt another gTLD. There are many more these days, for example: .software .codes .global .systems .tech .technology (but I can’t find .linux). Whatever the pick, just move everything there and redirect automatically if possible. If not, post a public notice of the new home page on the old .eu and .com.


(edwin snelgrove) #63

“Bleeding edge, without the blood…”
“People who want the newest shiniest software without major headaches.”

No offense intended, but I hope the folks responsible for Void’s future have a more coherent, pragmatic agenda in mind. (IMHO) the horde of well-financed commercial carpetbaggers – intent on ripping the Internet from the grasp of the public domain – are the problem. Red Hat, Apple, Mozilla, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Comcast, Verizon, just to mention the most obvious ones in the private-sector. Then there’s the US Government, and the mainstream media cabal.

The entire ad-hoc open-source infrastructure is under siege, and if it is to survive, new strategic thinking is required (followed by quiet, decisive action), albeit not in public forums like this one.


(Jacob Moen) #64

As a user, I only care about the fact that it works so damn well. :wink:
I am too old to build my Linux from scratch (Yes, I did LFS (Linux From Scratch) myself four times …), and too impatient for Gentoo and even Arch.
I just want something that works, and - as a software developer - I need to be able to install the newest software libraries that I can get hold on.
Void is different than all the various rolling distributions that I’ve tried. Especially xbps and the single source of truth package policy. Strictly governed, yet still open to contributions (PRs against the main repo). That’s genius.

I trust the team to figure out how to govern themselves and the project.

I am not entirely sure if I agree. Transparency is vital, but yes: there are times when a team must sit down and work out something in private.

I wonder if the Software Freedom Conservancy is worth looking into?


(Edmond Dantes ) #65

aside from the license, Void boasts also the guinness record of being the first distro to implement LibreSSL in base and package everything compiling against it. summed to musl support, Void can be seen as a voice out of the chorus and one of the few distros that do not give in to trends and bad habits, with the purpose of preserving quality. I can figure out devs must feel sonetines overburdened by the kind of workload which derives from the above-mentioned rightful but unpopular choices

Speaking of Romero, I had noticed already he had been missing for a while, but guessed he had been giving directives under the hood, and was about to officially retire leaving future projects in the hands of the other devs. Anyway, I had started being curious about him, so went looking for him on Web. He hadn’t posted on Void forums for around a year, packages maintained by him had been left outdated, and he hadn’t been seen on github either meanwhile. I didn’t manage to find much about him, expected some kind of biography or interview, but got nothing, aside from a lot of messages and commits on netbsd mailing lists until 2008, the xbps project on sourceforge after 2008, and Void linux (forum/github/wiki). No personal github profile, no profile on NetBSD contributors index, no twitter/mastodon account,no blog, nada. Definitely quite the reserved person


(Enno Boland) #66

Aaaand some more good news: We gained control over the https://voidlinux.org domain. We will gradually migrate to this domain.


(edwin snelgrove) #67

I think its important to understand what is at stake here, and the massive number of asset-rich entities in the ‘crony private-sector’ who, along with their counterparts in the MSM, and Global Government Inc., intend to eviscerate the open-ethos and ‘net neutral’ paradigms which have enabled the Internet to flourish, until recently. The reason they have that focus is due in part to the enormous wealth-generating potential of the Internet. However, on the distaff side, the Internet as presently constituted, poses a grave threat to ‘their’ hegemony over the global channels of wealth creation. It poses an even ‘graver’ threat to their counter-parts in the public-sector.

Regardless of whether you like, love, or loathe Donald Trump, the fact that he managed to get elected, resulted in exposing the depth of corruption which has subsumed the government(s) of ‘Etats Unis’. In particular, the blatant expropriation of constitutional authorities by the losing party, to launch an extra-judicial Coupls D’Etat against Trump, even before he was sworn in.

Even as a longtime, profoundly Libertarian individual, I remain stunned at the depth of it, and even more concerned over the continuing indifference and incomprehension of what is taking place, by our electorate. I could go into more detail as to the implications of all that, but at this point, there is no secure forum I know of, wherein such subjects can be discussed.

If I’m not mistaken, the Void Linux team is in France (?), or at least, not here in Amerika. That was a major reason I zeroed in on Void Linux. Whatever you do, don’t start incorporating things in the USA, or inviting government regulatory oversight of any kind into what you’re doing. My advice: assemble a team of committed individuals with a history of personal collaboration and trust – and quietly go to work consolidating and fine-tuning Void Linux yourselves, with no urgent need to bring out a next release for maybe six-months at least. Assuming I’m able to build a distro based on the github sources recommended, I’m going to do the same thing. Since LT happens to live here in the same city I do, I’m hoping I can develop some informal contacts, and perhaps get some advice as to how best to communicate with, and expand a secure circle of folks with similar priorities.