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Feedback Channel about Void Linux Management issues


#21

@Gottox Juan is gone, now we need a new dictator. :stuck_out_tongue:


#22

Support to you all! Hopefully this will be solved in the best possible way.
Is there a time-plan for it?


(Edmond Dantes ) #23

Are you sure? True dictators only last 6 months

Probably that’s exactly what we need though


(Edmond Dantes ) #24

I think you guys are doing great things for this open source project, it’s clear you seriously believe in it and are dedicating a not negligible amount of your daily work to Void Linux. Not many distros can boast such a professional and determined dev team and in light of that I’m pretty confident the project will overcome this great impasse.

Some feedback? If you happened to see any of my comments on forum concerning Void you should know already how I appreciate all of your work. That said, since this has been mentioned elsewhere recently, in case the project were moved to new server, I’d love to see a dedicated mail server to host an official void-users mailing-list

PS: it was kind to open a thread on the news article for users to comment and ask about, not many would have done so


#25

I hope Juan is ok wherever he is or whatever he is doing.

Thanks to the devs team for the determination to keep the torch going besides the recent hurdles. I’m not a developer or anything close, but I’ll be glad to help in any way I can. This is the time to gather together.

Agreed. And would love to see Amazon away from the forum too.

Amen to that.


(Enno Boland) #28

Good news so far:

  • We have control of the IRC channel
  • The whole internet paused flaming for a second and was incredible supportive and kind :heart:
  • We might have some good news about the domain issue. Stay tuned!

#29

Hmm, apparently someone “sensed” some issues might be going on. This shouldn’t have been closed IMHO, the issue was already discussed a bit on IRC before this posting.

@the-maldridge, are you the new “dictator”? You surely act as one!


(maxice8 alter) #30

idk if you actually read what he posted but he posted nothing related to new project management he posted suggestions on how to improve the current management. some of them from a quick look already implemented.


(Enno Boland) #31

Please be polite.


(maxice8 alter) #32

Currently everyone’s answer to everything is, make a PR.

lul, wait until he hears about Exherbo which the answer is “start contributing and become core dev or fuck off m8”


#34

@maldridge 's answer was very interesting. :slightly_smiling_face:


#35

My first post was flagged as inappropriate by cr6. Apparently only Void devs can talk like that.

Let me rephrase then: Lets try to avoid making Void a hostile, isolated, and unappealing community by answers like the one quoted from Exherbo.

Even an idea can be a contribution.

@cr6: Better?


#36

I agree, however I don’t see anything wrong in the PR. It was just ideas. Also I was at the IRC that day, several people redirected the issue to a PR.


(maxice8 alter) #37

There is a reason why that answer is from Exherbo and not Void, you’re basically asking us to keep doing what we are doing.


#38

I don’t get what you’re saying.


(Michael Aldridge) #39

Take a look at the date on that reply. It is before this disclosures about the projects top level leadership, so what I could say was limited. I do believe though that that reply still continues to clarify and explain the Void project philosophy and operational choices.

For clarify I’ve placed a link from that issue ticket to this thread so that discussion is happening in one place.


#40

If that really is the Void project philosophy and operational choices and not just your personal opinions, you should have posted that on the website IMHO. I think the project needs to make this more public. Some of the issues you elaborate on effects who’s willing or interested in contributing to the project. Personally I wouldn’t contribute much to a project run as you describe, but that’s just me.


#41

A snappy edit you made there (there were no link when I read the issue and you had already closed and locked the issue).

The discussion started at IRC, was redirected to PR/Issue by devs, which you then “handled”, and now you redirect it to this thread (after the snappy edit). Well, as long as you yourself knows what you are doing.


(Edmond Dantes ) #42

I’m sure you got it all too well: he mentioned exherbo to underline how different its devs attitude is from Void’s and how Void is friendly compared to it.

Nonetheless, @north1 I must point out something. The mood here indeed is that: ‘you like what you got?Fair; you don’t? make a PR; you’re complaining about something being outdated?Update it; you’re complaining about some software missing?Package it’. Sometimes it feels truly as if an exherbo-like phylosophy were involved, implying that if you use Void, then it’s taken for granted you’re able (or want to learn how) to contribute. Not that we’re ignoring the fact that half people here are casual users, but we purposely choose to do so (and subsequently encourage contribution?)

Complicit the lack of manpower obviously, Void remains not a distro for anyone. It doesn’t surprise to see all those ‘expert’ Arch users,excited by the hackish systemd-free and libressl centered secure distro, posting once here and then move away forever. That’s not a pro or a con, but matter of fact. There are 100 or more actively maintained distros out there, for every taste and need, devs can just do what they like, pursue their objectives, regardless of stupid things like popularity and user share. This freedom, all things considered, is where Linux’ success secret hides in. And this distro is just unique thevway itbis ; anyone competent enough will never stop praising it for its quality regardless of how many people use it.

Now, @maldridge, according to all those people who I heard speaking about OpenBSD development (not speaking for myself, only reporting a series of witnesses I collected throughout years), OpenBSD is a dictatorship for sure,meaning if De Raadt likes what you do, ok,if he doesn’t, you’re wasted your time. I’m not implying OpenBSD isn’t a meritocracy, because, as a project it really values just code quality, praises merits, regardless of anything else. The problem is that this merit has to undergo de Raadts veto and pass his evaluation test. And probably that’s way that guy suggested introducing a ‘Porter Handbook’ and adopting the FreeBSD’s way. But I’m not competent enough, so I’d leave this to @gregf to comment, being he also a FreeBSD dev.

On the other hand, it seems that only projects with strong leaders manage to raise above the others, but above all, be appreciated by the OpenSource community: namely Linux and OpenBSD. To explain why this happens I’ll link Julio Merino’s notes on resignation from NetBSD’s core team. Merino addesses some of the problens which the OP of the github issue seemed concerned about, so I’ll leave this here as inspirational speech about the mistakes to avoid (Merino judgement is IMHO too melodramatic and Void is way far from the most doomed NetBSD’s period, which was around 2010-2015). If Romero moved away a reason there nust have been and I think it lays in that same words. I used to see a certain amount of ‘xtreame’ on NetBSD’s base system, 5-7 release; but as I first fetched-extracted a 8 branch current snapshot and ran an etcupdate (examine diffs and merge/substitute old conf files with new), I saw how all this 'please contact <xtreame’s mail> had been replaced or deleted.

Despite all of you seem to push toward a OpenBSD-like distro, Void’s ties with NetBSD are still hard to cut down or overcome. Nobody had told me that distro was xtreame doing, still the first thing I thought when I tried Void, was that it resembled NetBSD, starting from the affinity between xbps and pkg_install sets if utils. And tgst’s why NetBSD’s ling history, evolutions and mistakes can be a good starting point for setting up future directives anfd goals (just providing a hint).


#44

No, I didn’t understand what he meant. Thank you for clarifying.

But what are we talking about here? The devs attitude being different from Void, what does that even mean? Who are “Void” if not the devs?

Sure we have a small very friendly community of people who use Void on a daily basis, most of these people are very friendly, on IRC, on this forum, etc. But these people are not Void, these people have no say in anything regarding Void because there is no “due process”, no rules, no official project goals, etc. One dev goes to the right and another to the left. One dev accepts a PR for some issue, another dev utterly rejects another similar PR - just because he doesn’t “feel” it belongs in Void. Etc.

The issue raised by OP on GitHub about “new management” was not “lets get rid of everyone”. The issue was raised after it being discussed that the project was lacking management and organisation. Maybe some of the devs who participated in the discussion themselves didn’t even know the status of the project and what they where talking about.

What I believe was originally posted with the best of intentions, as the OP also clearly wrote, lost its context on GitHub to the discussion that started the issue and @maldridge perhaps misunderstood.

Anyway, @Montecristo, you raise some valid and interesting points IMHO!